Shop Talk S01E12: The Commercial Life

Today’s episode tackles the taboo topic of arts admins that leave the field for positions in the commercial sector. I’ve often wondered why this carries around so much baggage and why we don’t see more instances of professionals moving between sectors over the span of their career.

We jump into those topics along with all sorts of related contrast/comparisons of board influence, resources, investments, culture, and more. We also answer the question of whether it’s possible to summarize nonprofit/for profit culture differences using pop culture references. Spoiler: yes (Ceci uses Star Trek, Marc uses Lord of The Rings).

Here are a few highlights from the discussion:

Fancy tech is sexy but improving base skills and building strategy from the ground up is just as important. But it's not sexy so it doesn't get the investment it should in nonprofit culture. Shop Talk S01E12: The Commercial Life Click to Tweet
Corporate employers understand that where you go might not involve that company…but they still invest in mentorship and skills. Shop Talk S01E12: The Commercial Life Click to Tweet
I want to be in a place with a good manager, clarity, where I'm valued, where I have clarity on what my contribution is worth, and where I have a clear path for my career will get me. Shop Talk S01E12: The Commercial Life Click to Tweet
One issue with for profit culture is whenever I see a job description that says we work hard and play hard I run away. Shop Talk S01E12: The Commercial Life Click to Tweet
Culture follows results. - Shop Talk S01E12: The Commercial Life Click to Tweet

Guests

Marc van Bree

Marc is a solutions-driven marketer backed by 15+ years of results converting online and offline. He’s experienced in building marketing infrastructures and creating, managing, and finessing campaigns. He currently serves as the Director of Partner Marketing at ShipStation and before that served as the Director of Marketing at the Austin Opera and the Public Relations Coordinator turned Publicist at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. He has the distinction of being the very first member of the CSO’s marketing team that was dedicated to managing the organization’s social media platforms.

About Drew McManus

"I hear that every time you show up to work with an orchestra, people get fired." Those were the first words out of an executive's mouth after her board chair introduced us. That executive is now a dear colleague and friend but the day that consulting contract began with her orchestra, she was convinced I was a hatchet-man brought in by the board to clean house.

I understand where the trepidation comes from as a great deal of my consulting and technology provider work for arts organizations involves due diligence, separating fact from fiction, interpreting spin, as well as performance review and oversight. So yes, sometimes that work results in one or two individuals "aggressively embracing career change" but far more often than not, it reinforces and clarifies exactly what works and why.

In short, it doesn't matter if you know where all the bodies are buried if you can't keep your own clients out of the ground, and I'm fortunate enough to say that for more than 15 years, I've done exactly that for groups of all budget size from Qatar to Kathmandu.

For fun, I write a daily blog about the orchestra business, provide a platform for arts insiders to speak their mind, keep track of what people in this business get paid, help write a satirical cartoon about orchestra life, hack the arts, and love a good coffee drink.

Ceci Dadisman

Ceci Dadisman is a marketing professional with more than 15 years of experience creating effective communications campaigns utilizing innovative, forward thinking methods. She is nationally recognized as a leader in digital marketing and specializes in multichannel communications campaigns.

A frequent public speaker, Ceci’s recent and upcoming engagements feature national conference appearances at NTEN, Museums and the Web, National Arts Marketing Project, Arts Midwest, American Alliance of Museums, OPERA America, Midwest Museums Association, and Chorus America in addition to many other local and regional events. Known for her easy-going and vernacular style, she creates open learning environments with an emphasis on information sharing and useful takeaways.

Ceci is passionate about empowering people through marketing and is a senior contributor to Arts Hacker where she regularly shares timely information and step-by-step tutorials. She also teaches the arts marketing course at West Virginia University’s College of Creative Arts and is the Dean of Chorus America’s Chorus Management Institute.

A chronic early-adopter, Ceci has a passion for discovering ways that technology can be used to create more engaging experiences.  The Curated Arts Experience focuses on collecting real-world case studies about how organizations around the world are using technology to engage the participant or enrich the experience at an arts event.

She is on the National Arts Marketing Project Advisory Committee, the Museums and the Web (MW20) Conference Planning Committee, and has served on the Arts Midwest Conference Professional Development Committee and the NTEN Conference Session Advisory Committee. She also served for many years as the OPERA America Marketing Network Chair and currently sits on the West Virginia University College of Creative Arts Visiting Committee.

Ceci was born and raised in Pittsburgh, PA and graduated from West Virginia University’s College of Creative Arts.  She currently lives in Cleveland, Ohio.

About Drew McManus

"I hear that every time you show up to work with an orchestra, people get fired." Those were the first words out of an executive's mouth after her board chair introduced us. That executive is now a dear colleague and friend but the day that consulting contract began with her orchestra, she was convinced I was a hatchet-man brought in by the board to clean house.

I understand where the trepidation comes from as a great deal of my consulting and technology provider work for arts organizations involves due diligence, separating fact from fiction, interpreting spin, as well as performance review and oversight. So yes, sometimes that work results in one or two individuals "aggressively embracing career change" but far more often than not, it reinforces and clarifies exactly what works and why.

In short, it doesn't matter if you know where all the bodies are buried if you can't keep your own clients out of the ground, and I'm fortunate enough to say that for more than 15 years, I've done exactly that for groups of all budget size from Qatar to Kathmandu.

For fun, I write a daily blog about the orchestra business, provide a platform for arts insiders to speak their mind, keep track of what people in this business get paid, help write a satirical cartoon about orchestra life, hack the arts, and love a good coffee drink.


About Shop Talk

The official podcast of Adaptistration.com, Shop Talk invites captivating guests to talk about engaging topics connected to the orchestra business.

Shop Talk Archives | Shop Talk; Last Call Archives

Publication Schedule (subject to change #obvs)

  • E01Reaching Diverse Audiences Through The Marcom Lens, Ann Marie Sorrell and Ceci Dadisman 08/18/2020
  • E02Art Has Always Been Political, Weston Sprott and Jason Haaheim 09/01/2020
  • E03Deconstructing Silos, Anwar Nasir and Scott Harrison 09/15/2020
  • E04Fostering BIPOC And Women Composers, Anne M. Guzzo, Daniel Hege, and Holly Mulcahy 09/29/2020
  • E05: What Orchestras Administrators Really Need, Zak Vassar and Jeff Vom Saal 10/13/2020
  • E06: The Need For Expertise, Mark Almond and Jason Haaheim 10/27/2020
  • E07: Changing Your Narrative, Mark Larson and Scott Silberstein 11/10/2020
  • E08: Centering Equity, Ruby Lopez Harper and Brea M. Heidelberg 11/17/2020
  • E09: How to Create High-Quality Video Content, Bruce Kiesling and Niccolo Go 12/08/2020
  • E10: Walking Back Artistic Elitism, Kenji Bunch and Jenny Bilfield 12/22/2020
  • E11: Being A Content Creator Before It Was Cool, Jeff Curnow 01/05/2021
  • E12: The Commercial Life, Ceci Dadisman and Marc van Bree 01/19/2021
  • E13: Composers In Academia, David MacDonald and Sam Merciers 2/2/2021
  • E14: Musician Injuries Could Soar After COVID: Artistic Decision Makers Perspective, Jennifer Arnold and Tito Muñoz 3/9/2021
  • E15: Musician Injuries Could Soar After COVID: Musician Perspective, Jon Bowen, Catherine Chen, and Yumi Hwang-Williams 3/23/2021
  • E16: Academia/Pro Divide: Eric Esparza and Michael Lewanski

About Drew McManus

"I hear that every time you show up to work with an orchestra, people get fired." Those were the first words out of an executive's mouth after her board chair introduced us. That executive is now a dear colleague and friend but the day that consulting contract began with her orchestra, she was convinced I was a hatchet-man brought in by the board to clean house.

I understand where the trepidation comes from as a great deal of my consulting and technology provider work for arts organizations involves due diligence, separating fact from fiction, interpreting spin, as well as performance review and oversight. So yes, sometimes that work results in one or two individuals "aggressively embracing career change" but far more often than not, it reinforces and clarifies exactly what works and why.

In short, it doesn't matter if you know where all the bodies are buried if you can't keep your own clients out of the ground, and I'm fortunate enough to say that for more than 15 years, I've done exactly that for groups of all budget size from Qatar to Kathmandu.

For fun, I write a daily blog about the orchestra business, provide a platform for arts insiders to speak their mind, keep track of what people in this business get paid, help write a satirical cartoon about orchestra life, hack the arts, and love a good coffee drink.

About Drew McManus

"I hear that every time you show up to work with an orchestra, people get fired." Those were the first words out of an executive's mouth after her board chair introduced us. That executive is now a dear colleague and friend but the day that consulting contract began with her orchestra, she was convinced I was a hatchet-man brought in by the board to clean house.

I understand where the trepidation comes from as a great deal of my consulting and technology provider work for arts organizations involves due diligence, separating fact from fiction, interpreting spin, as well as performance review and oversight. So yes, sometimes that work results in one or two individuals "aggressively embracing career change" but far more often than not, it reinforces and clarifies exactly what works and why.

In short, it doesn't matter if you know where all the bodies are buried if you can't keep your own clients out of the ground, and I'm fortunate enough to say that for more than 15 years, I've done exactly that for groups of all budget size from Qatar to Kathmandu.

For fun, I write a daily blog about the orchestra business, provide a platform for arts insiders to speak their mind, keep track of what people in this business get paid, help write a satirical cartoon about orchestra life, hack the arts, and love a good coffee drink.

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Shop Talk S01E12: The Commercial Life

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